Women did not have equal standing to men in medieval society, so it's notable that Chaucer writes in the voice of a woman--and quite a woman at that--critiquing the treatment of women by men. And the critique of the treatment of women by men was by a man, which makes him an early feminist...maybe. There are at least three levels to consider:
1) The Women of the Tale. In the story, we encounter four women: the nameless maiden, who is raped by the knight; the queen, who offers him his life in exchange to answering the question of what women want; and the old hag, the fairy who gives him the final trial and his final reward. The fourth "woman" in the tale is the group of women the knight asks the question to, who offer him a variety of answers, some noble, some shallow. To contrast, the only men in the story are the knight, who is clearly not adherent to the code of chivalry, and whose redemption at the end of the story is questionable; and the king, who is merciless in condemning the knight's actions, and only relents at the queen's behest. All of these characters are, for us, snapshots of medieval societal views, but for Chaucer, they were the predominant opinions of the day.
2) The Wife. Chaucer offers a description of the "fifth" woman of the tale in the general prologue to the Tales (I read just the beginning to you in class in Middle Englishe), and she (the Wife) also gives us some important info about herself in "her" prologue to her own tale (you get just a snippet of this in the background article in the textbook, right before the reading selection). Well, we don't get most of this information in the textbook, so here's a synopsis:
The Wife, whose name is Alison or Alice, is described as "larger than life" with "broad hips, a big butt, a hat as big as a house"... and a mouth to match. With a red face, red stockings, and a gap between her teeth, she matches the medieval stereotype of a "lustful person." She has had many husbands, and has acquired a considerable wealth in the process. She also refers often to how she dominated her many husbands in different ways, a theme that of course comes up in the story.
3) The Chaucer. Chaucer held many positions in life, and therefore drew from personal experience to write many of his tales. However, he also drew from societal stereotypes in characterizing many of his characters, which he does in great detail throughout the work. What's interesting in taking on the voice of the Wife is that he is simultaneously using stereotypes of women, but also criticizing the unequal status of women in society. He is, in some ways, advocating on behalf of women who may not have had a voice; he is still a man, though, and so his vocalization of the desires of women are ultimately just what a man thinks women want. That's the one are of his writing that does not reflect his personal experience...
***
So, looking that these three levels of discourse on women, here are a few CRITICAL QUESTIONS to consider:
* Is there a fair portrayal of women on any level of the story? Does Chaucer get it right, or is his portrayal inherently flawed because, after all, he's just a man? Address each of the 5 women depicted in the story.
* Here's one from class: Think about the end of the story--the man concedes, but still gets the pretty girl. Is his redemption complete? Do we buy this? Another way of thinking of it is this: there are actually two trials the knight goes through. First, he must find the answer to the queen's question to make up for raping the maiden. He does go about it the right way--he asks a bunch of women, and one of them eventually gives him the right answer--but does this satisfy our need for justice? Does this offer retribution for the rape of the maiden? The second trial the man goes through is in answering the old hag's ultimatum: he concedes in giving her the mastery, and he gets the "prize" for passing the test. Are we satisfied with this ending? Does he really wish her his master, or his equal, or does he simply want to shut her up? Address whether Chaucer offers the man a complete, fulfilling redemption.
* Also from class: The more things change, the more they remain the same. Chaucer's Tales were composed near the end of the 14th century; nearly 600 years later, has anything changed about the role of men and women, and the interaction between them (well, clearly some things have changed--dudes aren't rolling up on horses raping maidens any more, but that's maybe only because we don't use horses for transportation any more...)? Does Chaucer hit on a truth about the nature of women and men in society, or are his ideas outdated and irrelevant? Compare Chaucer's views to contemporary views on women and men.
3. Looking at history, women were never given the same rights as men. For example, in ancient Rome, women had the legal status of a child. In China, women had to cook and make clothes. If she becomes a widow, she has to submit to her eldest son. The role and power of women has always been suppressed with males overpowering them. They have to agree with their husbands. Some women even had to burn themselves alive at their husband’s funeral. Eventually, women are finally equal to men. Women can become doctors, lawyers, etc. They can even run of President of the U.S.! Although women are now enjoying their equality rights, the stereotypes and prejudices still remain. Women are still expected to cook and clean up. However, our men mentality has never changed. If we see a beautifully shaped girl, we become aroused. On the other hand, when women see a handsome man, they only wish he will hopefully be their husband. This mentality is demonstrated in the book. When the knight sees the maiden, he becomes aroused, and then rapes her. When the knight is with the old women, the old women wishes the knight will love her for who she is and be with her forever. Chaucer does hit the truth about men and women in society. In the Illiad, women are part of the soldier’s material possessions. In adult magazines, women are seen as objects and are judged by their appearances. Rape and prostitution will not exist today if women are seen as equals of men. A woman will not sell herself to other men if she viewed herself equal. Even though nowadays, women are legally as equal as men, the stereotypes still remain and will continue to remain because it is part of human nature.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to the first trial of the knight answering the question of what women want to redeem himself for raping the maiden, I believe that the knight was not rightfully redeemed for his crimes. The maiden herself does not ask the knight to answer the question, the queen does, therefore the knight is not directly atoning for his sins to the maiden he is just doing a task for the queen. By not doing something that the maiden has asked of him, the knight is not directly “making it up” per say to the maiden. To truly redeem himself the knight , in my opinion should have done something that directly benefits the maiden he assaulted. The knight committed crime upon the maiden herself so I believe that he should have done something for her to earn complete redemption. In response to the second trial the knight goes through, I believe that by leaving the answer to the old hag’s ultimatum up to the old hag he is actually buying into the idea of letting himself being governed by his wife. By letting her make the decision of whether or not they are to be husband and wife the knight is submitting to the old hag and letting her control him, the knight is fully conceding to the women’s mastery and he rightfully deserves the prize. If he did not want the old hag to truly be his equal, or master, he would have made the decision by himself and he would have based it upon what he wants. I am half satisfied with the ending of this story, for two reasons. Reason one, this is the side of me that does not like the solution to the crimes committed by the knight, but reason two is the side of that is satisfied with the knight submitting to the old hag and conceding to her wishes. The redemption of the knight to me as not complete or fulfilling because he does not make up for his crime directly to the one who was affected by his crime. After I get over the fact that the night isn’t redeemed for his actions I am satisfied with the way he holds up his end of the bargain to the old hag, and concedes to her wishes.
ReplyDelete2. I think by the end of the story the knight is truly redeemed. He has gone on a journey for a year and a day, to find the answer that will free him of his wrongdoings. On this journey he eventually finds the real answer from the old lady: women desire equality to men. At first he agrees to marry the woman for his own selfish reasons, to free him from his offense. Later in their marriage the old woman offers the knight the choice of having an old, ugly, but loyal wife, or a young, beautiful, and unfaithful wife. He does not make the decision, instead he tells her to do whatever she wants. This shows that he has truly learned how to respect women, which was the whole meaning of his quest from the queen. He learned what women want and that they are to be treated as equals, and not possessions.
ReplyDeleteNatalie Savini
ReplyDeleteIn “The Wife of Bath” there is a fair depiction of women in some ways, and in some ways there is not. One cannot categorize all women into one group because there are many different types of them. The woman who was raped shows the type of woman who puts herself out to be very vulnerable, and weak. The queen depicts a woman that wants men to realize what women want. She is a very bold woman. The old hag represents women that do not receive very much attention from men. The group of women that give him a variety of results represent women who are shallow, and humble, who are going through an identity crisis and do not know what they want. Finally, the fifth woman, The Wife of Bath represents the stereotypical “blonde” woman: a woman who does not respect herself for her intelligence or value, but only tries to look pretty and be admirable. So, through this story, all types of women seem to be depicted fairly. His portrayal does not seem flawed because he is a man; it seems to be more observant. This story shows a fair portrayal of women because it covers every type of woman, rather than just one general description.
This tale, "Wife of Bath" is just a tiny reminder of how relationships could end up being a bad one or a good one. It refreshes us how another person's love and devotion to another person could end disastrously or an eternal compassion. This tale has a fair descriptive detail about the women in this tale. Though, it stereotypes them a lot in this story. Chaucer gets some information right about women even though he is a guy. For one mastery or equality with men is what a lot of women do desire. They also want a compassionate and loyal man. He does stereotype women in here; for example, in the beginning, he rapes a young, beautiful maiden and this maiden, from her appearance, looks very vulnerable to rapes and abuse. The old hag however, represents the ugly and poor women in society who will never get true love from a man. The gossipers and what-nots are portrayed in this story by telling and suggesting the knight that women desire gold, handsome man, luxurious items, etc. Chaucer does get some things from the women right but he portrays them very stereotypically. At the end of the story, he finally gets a beautiful and bodacious woman when he finally chooses the loyal but poor wife. To the old hag, she thinks that he does really want her as his wife. But from a perspective as a guy, I would feel a slight negative, pessimistic thing in my mind that I said yes, to keep the old hag as my wife. I wouldn't truly love her, I would only say yes and then I wouldn't be happy with my choice later. The old hag probably never noticed his feelings behind his smile after he said yes. To me, his redemption is complete but I just not buying it.
ReplyDeleteComparing the tale to the 21st century, I can really relate to how this tale hits the truth of today's married couple. A lot of married couples are not interested with each other after a couple of years because they would be interested with more beautiful men and women that are becoming more and more populated. This is a good reminder of how they should still be together. They still need to love each other and protect each other; that is what they promised in the beginning of their relationship. The 21st century is full of divorces and what-not, especially for celebrities who are making a big deal of divorces and snatching big amounts of money from spouses. There are also many rapes happening too because younger and beautiful women are becoming more vulnerable to attacks. Chaucer did get some truth even though he wrote it nearly 600 years ago.
At the end of the story of "The Wife of Bath's Tale," the knight finally makes the decision of choosing the old, poor lady as his wife, thus fulfilling his redemption. Well, in my opinion, not quite. The knight's redemption is not complete because throughout the story, he goes on a journey to find the answer to the Queen's question with absolutely no insight or idea of what the answer really is. Once the old woman tells him what women truly want, she convinces him to marry her. Because of her demand of marriage, the knight feels forced into this commitment. This is the exact opposite of what the knight wants to do. In this society, and even 600 years ago, most men want a beautiful, young lady for a wife, and their first choice is definitely not an old hag. When the knight chooses to have the old woman as his wife, he does not make the decision right away. He is hesitant because "The knight thought long, and with a piteous groan..." (Chaucer line 374). His behavior shows that this is not a choice that he is willing to make in his life. If he really wanted the woman to be his wife, he would appear excited and even thrilled. However, he appears stressed and frustrated because he let out a huge, depressed groan. The knight is not allowing the old woman to have the mastery in the relationship because he wants to, but because he feels that he must allow her to have that kind of freedom. This proves that his redemption is not complete. By asking many other women the answer to the Queen's question, it does not satisfy our need for justice because he is just looking for the answer to save his own skin, not because he is truly sorry for raping the maiden. For the second trail the knight goes through, he ends up passing the old woman's test and he receives the pretty girl. However, the old lady apparently did not notice his groan, she just noticed his agreement to give her the mastery in the relationship. This does not give him the redemption because he is only excited that he got the pretty girl, and that he avoided execution. In addition, the knight never really shows any of his sympathy- if he has any -for what he has done wrong. Therefore, his redemption is far from complete.
ReplyDeleteI think that by the end of the story the knight is redeemed. Although he does get the pretty girl I believe that is overshadowed by the fact that he allows for his wife to make her decision about how she wants to look. This is something that was extremely uncommon in these times. Men were supposed to be the head macho ones of the household and sit in the back seat and did as they were told. The knight strays from the everyday common idea and takes into consideration all that the wife tells in her monologue. Through his journey of first raping the nameless maiden to then stepping aside for his wife he takes a complete turn around in his actions. The queen allowed him to live and because he stayed alive and completed his mission with the help of the wife he grows and becomes different from others in society but this is good. He gave his wife what she desired and he obtained some of what he wanted at the same time.
ReplyDelete“The Wife of Bath” has a fair depiction of women. Chaucer depicts women right because most women desire equality but not all do. The maiden in the story was abused and raped by the knight because she was weak. The queen in the story wants the knight to learn what women want the most so he can realize it is inappropriate for him to abuse women. The gossipers are materialistic they only desire wealth. The old lady told the knight what women desired most and at the end she married the knight. I don’t think that he has satisfied the need for justice because even though he answers the question right that doesn’t benefit the maiden that he raped. In the 21st century women are treated more equal then they were before. Women still get raped today but not as much and unlike the story the person that raped gets a more severe punishment. I think Chaucer does hit the truth about the nature of women in society back then. Chaucer’s view is similar to a women’s view, and both Chaucer and women would disagree with most men.
ReplyDeleteIt is my belief that at the end of the story, the knight is not redeemed. Yes, he does do what the queen asks of him, and yes he does accept his wife, but all of this isn’t necessarily done correctly or with the right intentions. His first trail that the knight goes through in this story is finding the answer to the queen’s question to compensate for raping the maiden. Sure, the knight does find the answer to the question and ultimately does save his life, but he doesn’t go about it the right way. The queen asked him this question so he could discover the answer and learn from it, but if he’s just ‘copying’ other people’s answers, then it clearly beats the purpose. She gave him this task to make up for the fact that he raped this woman, and not using his own brainpower to answer this question is fraud in its purest form. In less severe terms, it’s similar to copying off someone’s test without them knowing. When the teacher catches you, they have you write a paper on why cheating is bad, but instead of morally thinking it out and doing the work yourself, you walk around the room and ask every honest student why it’s not okay. The point of the paper though, was to have you learn a lesson and figure out why what you did was wrong. You can’t figure that out if you don’t do it yourself. The knight is in the same boat. He could never really know what women want just by asking them. He has to reach back into his memory bank and think about past experiences and incidents that he’s had in his life that have led him to his conclusions. The queen wanted him to reflect upon his actions and his life and see if he could identify where he made a wrong turn. He completely takes on this quest in the wrong manner. The other trial that the knight goes through in the story is when he answers his wife’s ultimatum. He does eventually, after much contemplation, give the wife the power to make her own decision, but he doesn’t do it for the right reasons. He is hesitant to give his wife that kind of power because he doesn’t know what she’ll do with it. Yeah, he does ultimately ‘pass’ the test by giving his wife the freedom that she seeks, but it’s because he feels forced. He’s been pushed by her the entire story, and each time he caves to her protest. This situation is much of the same. He isn’t happy with letting her make the decision, but he doesn’t want to make the decision himself nor does he know what decision to make. I think that if he had actually had to make a choice he would have made her young and unfaithful, but at the time of choosing, he choked and didn’t know what to say. So I really don’t think that his ‘sensitivity’ towards her and not wanting to hurt her feelings should count as redemption. He had a lucky guess in letting her choose her own future. His reward of a young, beautiful, and faithful wife were not only undeserved, but where by chance. If by chance he would have said he wanted a young and unfaithful wife, then that’s what he would have gotten. Thus being, we wouldn’t even be here arguing if he were rightfully redeemed or not. It wouldn’t even be a question of contemplation. So, how can an answer such as, “I leave the matter to your wise decision./ You make the choice yourself, for the provision/ Of what may be agreeable and rich/ In honor of us both, I don’t care which;/ Whatever pleases you suffices me” (Chaucer 377-381), which in modern terms translates to, “Dude u pic cuz idk and idc wat u do,” be rewarded with one of the most valuable pieces of property of its day? I don’t think it can. Thus being said, the knight is neither worthy of his life nor his wife. His actions are overlooked to be redeemable, but they’re all done in the sake of his own interests. How can you commend someone for looking after themselves and their desires? You can’t, and that’s why I don’t think that the knight is redeemed in any way.
ReplyDeleteDealing with trial one, even though the Knight was able to answer the redeeming question, I believe he was not fully redeemed and did not deserve justice for his crime. First of all, the answer which he provided was not, indeed, his true answer. He spent each day asking many different women what they desired most, but in fact, this is not learning his lesson. When the Knight finally met the old lady who confessed to a quite shakespearean answer, the Knight simply "stole" the answer and told the queen. The queen redeemed the Knight and he was set free, but no lesson was learned. It was like telling a little boy to go and say something to one of your friends, and then forgetting about it forever. The Knight was basically given a free ride and answer was given and told. Second of all, the maiden that had been raped had no say in his punishment! The Knight did not even address her. Face to face, the Maiden did not punish the Knight directly, and since the queen ordered the punishment, the maiden may not have been satisfied with this redemption. If, in person, the Maiden had told the Knight to be locked in a chamber and personally think about what women truly desire, this would be much more redeeming. This way, the Knight would have no outside sources and would truly learn his lesson in exile. When discussing the second trial, the Knight clearly wants the old hag to be quiet and stop talking. He is very depressed about the situation and does not want to be married to an old, ugly, and poor woman. As he feels depression, he simply does not care what the old hag is asking about, and in reply tells her to choose. Ultimately, the Knight is not in any mood to answer the question, and he does not realize that when letting the old lady choose, he is answering correctly and receives his "prize." In the end, the Knight does not receive redemption because a) he steals an answer and does not truly learn a lesson, and b) out of misery he orders his old wife to choose, accidently answering correctly and receiving his undeserving prize.
ReplyDelete